FBI 202 for Crime Fiction Writers: Interview with Scott Nelson, Part 2

by A.M. Khalifa, thriller writer, Google+

"The FBI has screwed up on occasion and folks seem to remember the bad things that happen more than the good things that occur daily."

On Tuesday, I ran the first part of my interview with Scott Nelson, the film industry’s leading technical expert on all matters FBI.  Mr. Nelson rose to head the FBI's public affairs office where he was instrumental in the creation of America’s Most Wanted, as well as convincing the filmmakers of the Silence of the Lambs to shoot on location at the FBI’s academy in Quantico, Virginia.

In this final segment of the interview, we expand the discussion beyond practical advice for crime fiction writers. He reflects on the times his life was in danger, his reputation as one of America's best door-shooters, and his work as one of the most sought after FBI technical experts in the film industry. Click here for part 1 of the interview.

A.M. Khalifa: Among your numerous accolades, you are also apparently one of America’s most accomplished door-shooters. What’s that all about?

SN: Well, I've been involved in more than one fugitive hunt and I've also provided advice to Hollywood about difficult door entries. Sometimes, the only way to get in is to breach the locking mechanism with bullets. But, this is definitely the last resort and often only under emergency conditions. In J. Edgar the movie, actors used Thompson Machine guns to blast their way into hoodlum hideouts, and frankly, the biggest problem we had there was clearing the set so no one was hit with hot .45 caliber Thompson Machine gun shells as they rapidly spit out the side of that deadly weapon. The Hollywood prop folks did the rest. And, they did it very well. Those scenes looked real to me even though I knew they were not.

AMK: Talking about guns, was your life ever at risk in the line of duty? 

SN: As a young Marine Captain in Vietnam I was lucky to survive. The biggest and toughest battle we fought was to re-take the historic city of Hue from the North Vietnamese Army who slaughtered thousands of residents and occupied the so-called Citadel there. I was wounded by fragments from an RPG rocket.

As a fairly new FBI Agent in Newark, N.J. - commonly referred to as the broken glass capital of the world - I was involved in a huge bank robbery shootout and hit in the face with lead from a bank robbers 9 mm. Fortunately, no FBI Agents were killed, although the bank robbers weren't so fortunate. One died; one was wounded 52 times; and one escaped injury by clinging to the underside of their getaway car. According to the Judge who tried the case in Federal court, the first shot which was fired by the bank robbers was like the splitting of an atom. All hell broke loose.

AMK: I'm glad you made it through. On a lighter note, you've worked with some top filmmakers. What can you tell us about those experiences?

SN: Filmmakers want to tell an appealing story, often with political and/or social overtones. And they want to do it well and be successful. They want the characters to be human, often with deep flaws that the public can recognize and identify with. They also want to be true to the facts - sometimes. The best filmmakers are able to meld fiction with fact and still deliver an appealing story. Plus, these top filmmakers are typically great story tellers with a sense of drama and context.

AMK: What if a filmmaker refuses to heed your technical advice, how do you resolve that? In other words, what happens when technical accuracy clashes with artistic vision?

SN: That is an interesting question, and a common occurrence. Unless it is a documentary, artistic vision usually wins out. And really that is to be expected in fictional pieces. Fact is, technical accuracy can be boring and difficult to sell.

AMK: Last time you said the notion the FBI is always prone to "screw over local law enforcement " is largely inaccurate. But I do know you have an even bigger pet peeve about how the FBI is depicted in popular culture.

SN: I think an even bigger misconception about the FBI is "that they spy on American Citizens." Not so. The FBI operates strictly within the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the Rule of Law. True, they run complicated confidential undercover cases, do court authorized wire taps and often conduct surreptitious, sensitive investigations but they do so within the law and to protect the rights of all Americans. They always balance the intrusiveness of their investigations.

AMK: However, with recent revelations about the activities of the NSA, many people in America are arguably concerned whether all security agencies are indeed adhering to the law. Do you think members of the public have a hard time differentiating between one law enforcement agency and the other, and lump them all together as “the government”?

SN: I think many Americans recognize the FBI, but certainly they are fuzzy on the Bureau's investigative jurisdiction - over 350 different criminal violations - and the legal and administrative basis for their investigations. Plus, the FBI has screwed up on occasion and folks seem to remember the bad things that happen more than the good things that occur daily. I do think many folks confuse the various agencies and typically lump them all together. As I recall, there are approximately 19,000 local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies out there. And that doesn't include the intelligence agencies like NSA and CIA etc.

AMK: We spoke about the risk of copy-cat criminals getting inspired by fiction. Recently and after the Boston bombings, Rolling Stone magazine found out the hard way how the public feels about glorifying terrorists. Do you think the mass media is increasingly trying to blur the lines between good and evil?

SN: Yes I do, either consciously or subconsciously. First of all, Evil sells. Big time and that is what the public wants to see. And, evil often fits the media social view that criminals aren't really responsible for their actions and that our capitalistic system is in fact predatory and unfair to the less privileged. Therefore, the good guys deserve to be punished by the bad guys because this levels the playing field.

AMK: I know your work with your private firm and as a technical consultant for the entertainment industries allows you little time for one-on-one literary consultancy with writers. Would you make an exception for a particular project, and what would that be?

SN: Well, even though I find crime writing interesting, time and previous commitments have in the past made this a little difficult. However, I would make an exception for a particular project, time and interest allowing. I guess this would be on a case by case basis.

AMK: Finally, what book did you just finish reading, and what’s next on your reading list? 

SN: Funny you ask. I just finished your book Terminal Rage and also Charlie One Five - A Marine Company's Vietnam War by good friend and Marine Corps author Nick Warr. Like your book, Nick's latest offering is powerful and telling. Charlie One Five tells about a conflict where we never lost a battle but lost the war. And sadly many, many of America's best and brightest. 

From a personal perspective, I find my combat Marine Corps experience correlates with crime stories, particularly from the violent sides, and the dangerous leadership situations that occur during each and every young Marines combat experience. However, boring college text books are next on my list. I teach an ethics/law class next spring so I'm preparing for that course.

Readers: Do you like your FBI agents served nerdy and smart, or strong and infallible? And writers: What challenges do you face when depicting your law enforcement protagonists?

If you have any questions for Scott Nelson, please post them in the comments section below and I will field them and try to get Scott to answer as many of as possible.



A.M. Khalifa, author of international thrillers, writes exhilarating, contemporary stories pulsating with life and unforgettable characters. His debut novel, Terminal Rage, is a layered thrill ride that moves seamlessly from inside a nerve-wracking hostage situation to far-flung locations across the world, challenging readers to stay ahead of its unpredictable plot.

The ebook version of Terminal Rage is now on sale for $2.99 on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and Kobo. 

FBI 101 for Crime Fiction Writers: Interview with Scott Nelson

by AM Khalifa, thriller writer, Google+

Scott Nelson is the film industry’s leading technical expert on all matters FBI. Most recently he was Clint Eastwood’s main point of reference on J. Edgar, the historic biopic of the FBI's founder. A former and highly decorated marine, Mr. Nelson rose to head the FBI's public affairs office where he was instrumental in the creation of America’s Most Wanted, as well as convincing the filmmakers of the Silence of the Lambs to shoot on location at the FBI’s academy in Quantico, Virginia.

I sat down with Scott for a coffee and a chat near Westlake Village in Southern California, where he now runs a global security and risk management firm. I wanted to glean some valuable advice for crime fiction writers. This is is the first of a two-part interview. Click here for part two.

AM Khalifa: During your time heading the FBI's public affairs office, did you ever work with crime fiction writers, and if so, what are they typically trying to research?

Scott Nelson: Yes. Typically crime fiction writers want to know how it works in the real world and then how those basic techniques and tactics can be tweaked to create more interest and more drama. Everyone is looking for that new story, and as times change that new story will always emerge. Plus, old stories can be retooled to present new facts and new views.

AMK: As an FBI insider, what is the number one misconstrued notion about the Bureau that you would like to set the record straight on here, once and for all?

SN: That the FBI always screws over the "locals" (local and state law enforcement). Simply not so. The Bureau works hand in glove with state and local officers and provides ongoing valuable training, research, services and support. In fact, many joint operations are run every day.

AMK: However, I think readers and viewers LOVE it when the smart, omnipotent FBI agent slights the incompetent locals and pulls rank and jurisdiction. They feel secure of a positive outcome when a favorably drawn FBI agent is involved. Do you agree?

SN: Yes, but likewise there is a tendency to show cops merely as doughnut eaters. And therefore, many cops - particularly suits in the front office - are quite defensive and constantly trying to prove their worth. I've been blown off on many occasions by locals who do resent the FBI and their own lot in life.

AMK: How accessible is the FBI as an organization to independent authors reaching out to it for technical information, and what specific mechanisms exist to deal with such requests?

SN: The FBI Office of Public Affairs, Washington D.C. and the Public Affairs Agents in the many field offices are very receptive to independent authors looking for technical information. The FBI is always trying to "tell their story" but the level of interaction and assistance will often depend on the topic, the legitimacy of the work, and the track record of the author. Usually there are some requests that can't be accommodated for a variety of reasons. That is where former FBI Agents come in. They may be useful.

AMK: What useful resources and tips for crime fiction writers seeking to research the FBI or FBI agents can you share with us?

SN: Talk to a real FBI Agent, and don't believe all you hear from the so-called crime experts. There is also a tremendous amount of online information available, including legitimate search warrants, interviews, organization charts, etc. I would definitely take advantage of this information. Much of what authors want to know has already been done. No sense re-inventing the wheel, although new and fresh perspectives are always welcome.

AMK: I've heard you describe the typical look and feel of an FBI agent. Do you think established contemporary novelists tend to get the FBI right in their narratives, or is there room for improvement?

SN: That's a good question. So, I'll ask one myself and then answer it. Do you think FBI Agents are super sleuths, pushy and nerdy? Well, some are but most are not. The Bureau is made up of thousands of men and women with varied occupations, skill sets, genders, and ethnicity. Doctors, lawyers, accountants, military officers, teachers, engineers, etc. are proud to call the FBI home. Real agents are real people with real problems and real accomplishments. Actually, they seek to serve and so they do. Although J. Edgar Hoover promoted the super G-Man, "can do no wrong" concept, which actually helped the FBI solve cases and still does, that view can be more fiction than fact.

AMK: Is the FBI concerned about crime writers inspiring copy cats? And if so, where do we draw the line between freedom of speech and social responsibility?

SN: Great question. Real is often boring, while blood, sex, color, violence and "I can't believe that happened" are often titillating and popular. And repeated. Salacious also sells. Deviants often get ideas from the media and because it is done once, they psychologically give themselves ethical permission to do it again. I do think the FBI is concerned about copy-cat crimes and we often see similar crimes following serious publicized incidents. That said, members of the public have a right to know and make up their own minds. Freedom of speech - not yelling fire in a crowded hall - is paramount. Social responsibility is also tremendously important. The balance between the two is personal, guided by ones ethics, existing laws and regulations, and just good common sense. Doing the right thing is actually black and white and a pretty easy thing for most of us. Writers included.

AMK: Many crime writers go through their careers without ever meeting real-life criminals. Do you think it would add any value for a crime writer to interact with some of the seriously bad people we tend to write about?

SN: Yes. Many stories are gleaned from interviews of crooks, deviants, and weirdos (whatever they are). Human motivation is a complicated thing, and understanding the motivations of seriously bad people can be insightful. Short of that, talking to some real FBI agents and conducting strong research are helpful.

AMK: Do you find your experience in law enforcement gives you an advantage in predicting unexpected twists and turns in a crime novel?

SN: Yes. Been there, done that helps a lot. On the other hand, that experience can sometimes restrict out-of-the-box thinking because frankly, many neat turns and twists are simply figments of some writers' imaginations.

AMK: Are there particular crime story lines you feel are not broached enough that would make for compelling fiction?

SN: My sense is that much of it has been covered in one way or another. But there is always more out there. High tech/cyber crime solving is always of interest as is the more basic terrorist crime fighter profile of an agent winning against great odds. Also, the FBI cracks big cases all the time and many of those offer good story-lines. In general, I think we all like the good over evil story where the disadvantaged crime fighter overcomes all odds to save America, often sacrificing his own life in the process.

AMK: What types of fiction genres and story lines appeal to you most and why?

SN: I listen to books on tape when time permits, often when I'm on the road. I did make a recent exception and read Terminal Rage.....guess that sounds familiar, huh? That story line appealed to me because it fronted a real character with real problems and a noble cause. Plus the good guy won. I must say that stories promoting right over wrong, the goodness of man, and the greatness of America, as opposed to glorifying evil, violence and man's darkness appeal to me.

AMK: Who are some of your favorite writers and your favorite books and films?

SN: My favorite writer is Ernest Hemingway - hardly a crime fiction writer - and I listen to The Old Man and the Sea over and over again as it depicts real life lessons of a good guy underdog overcoming great odds to accomplish something really worthy. As for crime films, my favorite is Silence of the Lambs, and my students always profile Hannibal Lecter in a Psycho Social Criminal Behavior graduate class I teach. We've also studied Clint Eastwood's J. Edgar, but unfortunately I think the writer for that movie was off-target in many respects. On the light side, I watch time and time again Scent of a Woman, Planes Trains and Automobiles, Good Morning Vietnam, Office Space and many other movies some might not actually classify as serious pieces.

Readers: Do you like your FBI agents served nerdy and smart, or strong and infallible?

Writers: What challenges do you face when depicting your law enforcement protagonists?

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AM Khalifa, author of international thrillers, writes exhilarating, contemporary stories pulsating with life and unforgettable characters. His debut novel, Terminal Rage, is a layered thrill ride that moves seamlessly from inside a nerve-wracking hostage situation to far-flung locations across the world, challenging readers to stay ahead of its unpredictable plot.