tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post6867042848455193580..comments2023-11-02T02:40:48.410-07:00Comments on Crime Fiction Collective: Show Your Setting Through Your POV CharacterL.J. Sellershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10213491074676394406noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-41416612435725891682013-03-11T19:47:57.262-07:002013-03-11T19:47:57.262-07:00Not sure why I can't respond directly - maybe ...Not sure why I can't respond directly - maybe Safari and blogspot aren't playing nicely. Anyway, I don't think I was clear. I'm not saying that if an author uses 3rd person omniscient POV that when describing "the author [should be] stepping in to explain something." That's a change of POV, if the author steps in. POV can be tricky. If the POV is omniscient (LeGuin calls it "Detached" or "fly on the wall" in her Steering the Craft), then the description has to be consistent with that POV. The "fly on the wall," though potentially omniscient, doesn't see everything. <br /><br />In teaching argument, I warn students about the "data dump" - the paragraph that's all facts without any organizing principle or relation to the thesis. (See how much research I did, professor? Yes, student, but who cares?) The same rule applies to fiction, which is what I think you were getting at: the description has to fit the story, either by revealing character, setting scene or mood, or contributing to action. <br /><br />My (only?) point was that an "omniscient" POV can do effective description, but only if it's consistent the POV driving the narrative of the story. You were pointing out, rightly, that too often the distancing POV distances author (and reader) from story, or just interrupts it altogether.<br /><br />(And I'm not sure I was much clearer, other than I don't think we're really disagreeing.) david Y.B. Kaufmannhttp://www.davidybkaufmann.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-5458694009940414702013-03-11T08:42:35.175-07:002013-03-11T08:42:35.175-07:00Thanks, Jenny! Thanks, Peg! Glad to see both of yo...Thanks, Jenny! Thanks, Peg! Glad to see both of you talented writers -- and discerning readers -- agree with me! :)Jodie Rennerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17180607353893233389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-15151055557144061662013-03-11T08:38:00.590-07:002013-03-11T08:38:00.590-07:00Your post could have been titled Why I Stopped Rea...Your post could have been titled Why I Stopped Reading Tom Clancy. A simple sentence telling me that the submarine dashboard was cluttered with dials and instruments would have been perfect. Paragraph after paragraph describing each one was unnecessarily cruel.<br /><br />There's a fine balance between fleshing out description just enough and letting the reader take it from there and providing too much detail for whatever reason. (I suspect that sometimes it's a blind for an information dump to show how much the author knows.)<br /><br />When I write description from POV, it becomes fresh to me as well because my character is apt to see or focus on something I might miss. <br /><br />Another great one, Ms. Renner!Peg Brantleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04906858123466177508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-85181903410603630392013-03-11T08:02:52.795-07:002013-03-11T08:02:52.795-07:00Thanks for a great post, Jodie. I'm not a fan ...Thanks for a great post, Jodie. I'm not a fan of reading lengthy descriptions. Subtle observations made in the POV of the characters is a much better way to draw a reader in to the fictional world.Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10384070533603453713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-81716879942943876182013-03-11T04:50:46.490-07:002013-03-11T04:50:46.490-07:00Thanks for your thoughtful (as always) comment, Da...Thanks for your thoughtful (as always) comment, David. As for showing the setting through 3rd person omniscient narrative, to me that's the opposite of what I've been saying here - that's the author stepping in to explain something to the reader instead of letting the character react to what's around him/her, which is so much more effective in sucking the readers into the character and their world and bringing the story world to life.Jodie Rennerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17180607353893233389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-66527120081569996532013-03-10T20:20:58.800-07:002013-03-10T20:20:58.800-07:00Jodie,
You've touched on one of the big issu...Jodie, <br /><br />You've touched on one of the big issues of craft. Your post reminds me of Ursula K. LeGuin's Steering the Craft. A few thoughts struck me as reading: The interior decorator descriptions substituted vague adjectives for particular impressions. the botanical description substituted faux-objective classification (taxonomy) for personal response. In both cases, the writer feared the feeling. Or didn't trust the characters. I suspect the "semi-transparent wall" exists between the author and her protagonists as much as, if not more than, it does between us and the two kids.<br /><br />"Marbling" - I prefer to think of it as layering the descriptions gets us into the POV, because that's how we respond. I try to focus on POV reactions: what does this character see, hear, etc.? What will strike him first? Which sense dominates? In a conversation, what distracts her from the words spoken - or reinforces them?<br /><br />Then it's time to "filter though the perceptions" - the inner monologue.<br /><br />The key, of course, is getting "into their heads and hearts, seeing their world as they see it" for the two reasons you state so well.<br /><br />The "block description" works, oddly, for visual media: a comic book, graphic novel, or film script needs to separate description from dialogue. Prose dare not.<br /><br />In answer to your questions, as a reader I often skip past descriptions of setting and weather, or at least read them with less attention. I'm interested in character, conflict and voice. Once I "get" the setting, anything else is distracting. Maybe I read to my writing strengths.<br /><br />As a writer, settings must be described from the narrative POV. If that's 3rd person omniscient, so be it; a catalog is not a narrative. (Well, it can be, but the reader creates the narrative, not the catalog writer.) So even an omniscient POV has to use discretion. (Wasn't Dickens particularly adept at this?)<br /><br />Great post, as always. Thanks.David Y.B. Kaufmannhttp://www.davidybkaufmann.comnoreply@blogger.com