tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post534856792383491471..comments2023-11-02T02:40:48.410-07:00Comments on Crime Fiction Collective: Rules and breaking themL.J. Sellershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10213491074676394406noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-35659855227748342772013-06-22T16:11:58.837-07:002013-06-22T16:11:58.837-07:00Thanks for commenting, David. I see a lot of rules...Thanks for commenting, David. I see a lot of rules broken in so many of the books I read, I think they just constantly evolve until they blur and no one knows what they are any more. Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10384070533603453713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-33718532709237441712013-06-21T13:05:00.791-07:002013-06-21T13:05:00.791-07:00Been busy the past few days, so I'm catching u...Been busy the past few days, so I'm catching up. <br /><br />Discussions about rules and genre-definitions remind me of Eisenhower's description of battle plans: before the battle, they're everything. Once the battle starts, they're nothing. I see this in many fields. Even literary critics don't necessarily follow the rules they're using to analyze works of literature.<br /><br />We tend to forget that the rules don't exist in a vacuum and were not made up from nowhere. Even the rules of grammar are simply a distillation, or formulation, of experience. Rules, I think, are descriptive. They may be pattern-prescriptive, but not item-prescriptive. <br /><br />Great post, Jenny. Very thought provoking. I wish I had time to ruminate more. (Looking up Jodie's definitional post, too.)David Y.B. Kaufmannhttp://www.davidybkaufmann.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-51308449454320945252013-06-20T16:34:15.558-07:002013-06-20T16:34:15.558-07:00Same here, Stéphanie. I like to alternate.Same here, Stéphanie. I like to alternate.Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10384070533603453713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-22330681379292127202013-06-20T13:37:57.929-07:002013-06-20T13:37:57.929-07:00If I had my 'druthers, I'd read only myste...If I had my 'druthers, I'd read only mystery, but the leaning today seems to be to throw in "suspense" with POVs outside the detective. I 'rewrite' them in my head, wondering how I could make this into a true mystery. <br /><br />Terry <br /><a href="http://terryodell.com/terrysplace" rel="nofollow">Terry's Place</a><br />Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-54007565930455611632013-06-20T08:28:42.354-07:002013-06-20T08:28:42.354-07:00Yep, I agree with that last sentiment.Yep, I agree with that last sentiment.Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10384070533603453713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-74820403078800185302013-06-20T07:16:44.742-07:002013-06-20T07:16:44.742-07:00I like both, as long as it's well written. I ...I like both, as long as it's well written. I love not knowing who the killer is, like in the Sherlock Holmes series, but I also like to know the villain from the start (think Dan Brown with the Langdon series)Stéphanie Noëlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16295117323597258241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-9001425520547372372013-06-19T22:44:34.384-07:002013-06-19T22:44:34.384-07:00Great post, Jen. I'm always irritated when I s...Great post, Jen. I'm always irritated when I see a list of "rules". I think it's all about intent and what works. I suppose there may have been a time when using sentence fragments was considered "breaking the rules", until someone did it and found it worked. Then everyone else jumped on board, and then, there went that rule. <br /><br />I say, screw rules. If it works, do it.ANDREW E. KAUFMANhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08835920472268730244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-22725623453035526422013-06-19T19:38:08.568-07:002013-06-19T19:38:08.568-07:00I tend to view books where there's an actual m...I tend to view books where there's an actual mystery as fitting the mystery genre, but those where you know whodunnit as more suspense or thriller. But, in a more global sense, I mentally catalog them all as "mystery" even though many don't fit the mold. To me, whether they fit the mold or not, it's all about the writing. Terry Ambrosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14859532145979982213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-69177628247495345302013-06-19T12:51:57.161-07:002013-06-19T12:51:57.161-07:00The "We know who the Killer is but how will t...The "We know who the Killer is but how will the Good Guy catch him" formula by Richard Levinson and William Link made a genuine legend out of Lt. Colombo. I can still watch those when they show up and - no matter how many times I have seen a particular episode - immediately get yanked right into it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11538690057861333760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-69706101097124628772013-06-19T10:27:54.211-07:002013-06-19T10:27:54.211-07:00That's great, Jenny! I hope you enjoy my book ...That's great, Jenny! I hope you enjoy my book with tips on writing a compelling thriller!Jodie Rennerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17180607353893233389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-79252752004406454472013-06-19T08:23:37.579-07:002013-06-19T08:23:37.579-07:00You're right, Jodie. They are different in a n...You're right, Jodie. They are different in a number of ways. I'm downloading your new and expanded Writing a Killer Thriller. Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10384070533603453713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-27023598136124930262013-06-19T08:16:37.430-07:002013-06-19T08:16:37.430-07:00Great post, Jenny! Mysteries and thrillers are so ...Great post, Jenny! Mysteries and thrillers are so different, with totally different reader expectations. I wrote a blog post here on CFC a few years ago called Thrillers vs. Mysteries, and CFC-ers and our writer & reader followers helped me, through their excellent comments, highlight the differences. So the article that turned into a chapter of my Writing a Killer Thriller was richer for all the input. <br /><br />Then of course there are writers who very successfully combine the two genres with their suspenseful mysteries or mystery thrillers, like Robert Crais and Harlan Coben. <br /><br />When I give fiction-writing advice, I offer suggestions and guidelines, never rules, which are meant to be broken.<br /><br />I say if it works for you, go for it!<br /><br />Here's the link to that article here on CFC: July 18, 2011: Thrillers vs. Mysteries, http://crimefictioncollective.blogspot.com/2011/07/thrillers-vs-mysteries.html Jodie Rennerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17180607353893233389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-88989041991569874132013-06-19T07:51:15.132-07:002013-06-19T07:51:15.132-07:00I agree, Peg. And even when you know the villain, ...I agree, Peg. And even when you know the villain, there are often still surprises in store.Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10384070533603453713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-85893694337001750352013-06-19T07:50:24.899-07:002013-06-19T07:50:24.899-07:00Totally agree, Gayle. I see it all the time in mov...Totally agree, Gayle. I see it all the time in movies where we as viewers know who the villain is and we watch in horror when he mingles so easily and gets close to his victim. And yes, Freezer Burn did turn out okay - I loved it.Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10384070533603453713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-76661647817624179842013-06-19T07:42:32.326-07:002013-06-19T07:42:32.326-07:00Great post, Jenny. I always see your books as less...Great post, Jenny. I always see your books as less mystery and more thriller anyway. I've read thrillers that reveal the villain early and it doesn't lessen the thrill of wondering when/if they'll get caught. One of the things you do that I admire so much is that you make me like some characters that seem unlikeable. Your victim in Hide and Seek is not a nice girl, but I want justice for her.<br /><br />I can't wait to read Stone Cold and see what you've done with a villain.<br /><br />As for following rules, I didn't know what the rules were when I wrote Freezer Burn. That turned out okay, so I've kept going with my other books and haven't looked back. I like to write pure mystery, where the reader and the main character are solving the crime together. But I don't mind reading a book where I follow the villain, too. I do sometimes find myself shouting at the protagonist, "No, no, look over there! I saw him put the knife in THAT drawer!" Gayle Carlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15783449240138097315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4954486699810607306.post-88412442267198046432013-06-19T06:51:58.449-07:002013-06-19T06:51:58.449-07:00Coincidentally, this kind of thing was a topic on ...Coincidentally, this kind of thing was a topic on an online group yesterday. I made this comment:<br /><br />I've come to the conclusion that although surprises are nice, they aren't<br />always necessary. Sometimes the path to the conclusion is as satisfactory<br />as the conclusion itself.Peg Brantleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04906858123466177508noreply@blogger.com